The Joey Faust book, “The Rod Will God Spare It?”
By Herb Evans
Joey Faust has written the book, “The Rod Will God Spare It?” We informed Joey Faust of his serious error and admonished him not to publish the book after he sent out many of his pre-published editions. Nevertheless, he refused and rejected our admonitions repeatedly, so after more than the required two, we broke all fellowship with him. Several months later, Faust published his book, which we promptly have taken to task. Either edition is the most damaging attack on Independent, Fundamental, Baptist soteriology that has come along in quite a while. It is a divisive heresy of the first order.
In his book, Faust quotes extensively many dead writers (Pember, Govett, Panton, etc.) to convince believers in this century, when these dead writers could not convince (with any significant success) believers in their time and thereafter. The one difference between the isolated comments of many of these writers and Joey Faust is that Joey Faust seeks to systematize his doctrine of believers in hell and the lake of fire by using their peripheral statements and adding to them his own imaginative and fanciful theories.
The other difference is the degree and sadistic severity to which Joey goes about his theory that believers are slain by God at the Judgment Seat of Christ and cast into the lake of fire for a time. After that, Faust has them cast into an underworld hell of some kind, a sort of Baptist Purgatory for the duration of the millennial kingdom. Unfortunately, due to the pillared reputation of some of these writers, the preachers of that era, for some reason, gave them a pass and did not challenge them on their peripheral doctrines, which Joey is using to prove his lake of fire doctrine, i.e., kingdom exclusion and punishment at the judgment seat of Christ. Very few of them went as far as to suggest that God kills Christians at the Judgment Seat and afterward throws carnal believers into the Lake of Fire and Hell.
Make no mistake about it, Joey Faust is out to obviate, void, and steal the precious promises that the Lord gives to His people. Faust has absolutely no scripture to get believers into the Lake of Fire or Hell, much less to get them out of either. The modus operandi of Faust is to use imaginative parabolic teaching, allegorical comments, obscure O.T. passages, Gospel exchanges (in which it is not always easy to know who is meant unless you have a false teaching you want to prove), innuendo, inference, suggestion, intimidating pontification, and almost every “Lose Your Salvationist” proof text of the Arminians to attempt to convince his readers of his heresy.
Our approach to Joey Faust’s heresy is not to try to explain every one of his suggestive proof texts spins, although we have answered more than a few – either here or in another writing. Instead, we have taken the approach of pitting Joey Faust against the plain, clear, understandable promises of our Lord Himself, concerning the destination of all believers, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the judgment of the believers’ works. Let God be true . . .
The unmitigated gall and arrogance of Joey Faust to suggest that some believers, who have spent more than 1900 hundred years in heaven will find out that they must go to the lake of fire and hell at the judgment seat, staggers our imagination. Hitler, using this approach of telling a lie so big that the gullible majority will not doubt it, experienced great success.
But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine . . . in doctrine showing uncorruptness . . . Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you. — Titus 2:1,7,8 — Herb Evans
And death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged EVERY MAN according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. — Rev 20:13,14
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? [Joey Faust will] . . . Who is he that condemneth? [Joey Faust does]. It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also MAKETH INTERCESSION FOR US. Who shall SEPARATE us from the Love of Christ? [Joey Faust would like to] . . . For I am persuaded, that neither death nor life [nor Joey Faust although he tries] shall be able to SEPARATE us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus. — Rom. 8:33-39
“After this manifestation by fire comes the next step . . . [1 Cor. 3:15] . . . After the body is first burned in the ‘second death’, it will then be sentenced and temporarily banished to the underworld [HELL to you uninformed]. This is a two-part judgment. Tried by fire (i.e., the second death) and then saved ‘so as by fire’ (i.e., the subsequent punishment in the fiery prison of the underworld, from which one will be delivered after the millennium). One might wonder how disobedient Christians get from the Lake of Fire to Hell to the underworld . . .” [Caps Mine] — Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? p. 179 (Also p. 217,218 – pre-published book)
Joey Faust clearly seeks to separate certain Christians from Christ
Joey Faust clearly seeks to separate certain Christians from Christ and His love at the Judgment Seat of Christ (JSOC). Joey Faust’s pre-publication book (Will God Spare the Rod?) and his published book (The Rod: Will God Spare It?) both teach that unrepentant, unconfessed, carnal Christians will be killed and burned by God at the JSOC (after being “raised”) and then placed into the lake of fire for a time and afterwards put into the fiery underworld (HELL), all contrary to the Bible, since only believers’ works are burned. Faust even REVERSES the biblical order of hell’s occupants being cast into the lake of fire TO the lake of fire occupants being cast into hell, all without the benefit of scripture.
Joey Faust does not have one verse of scripture that shows God putting believers into the lake of fire or into the underworld; he merely interpolates such a view. Faust also does not have one verse of scripture to prove God takes anyone out of the lake of fire to put them into the underworld hell. He merely pontificates this false teaching. Contrary to Faust’s view, all death and hell inhabitants will be cast into the lake of fire after THEY are JUDGED at the Great White Throne. Here, EVERY MAN in hell is judged according to his work—not like the JSOC, where only a believer’s works are judged and not the man himself. NONE of hell’s occupants are ever released into glory. ALL of hell’s occupants go to the lake of fire! Let us examine the Judgment Seat of Christ and why believers are neither slain there, burned there, nor cast into the lake of fire nor HELL.
THE UNCONDITIONAL PROMISES TO ALL JSOC BELIEVERS
For ye ARE DEAD, and your life is HID with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then SHALL ye also appear with him IN GLORY. — Col. 3:3, 4
. . . whether we wake or sleep, we should live TOGETHER with him. — 1 Thess. 5:10
For God hath NOT appointed us to WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live TOGETHER with him. Wherefore COMFORT yourselves TOGETHER . . . — 1 Thess. 5:9-11
. . . concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, even as others which have no hope . . . Wherefore COMFORT one another with these words. — 1 Thess. 4:13, 18
. . . him that cometh to me I will in NO WISE [No way, Jose`!] CAST OUT . . . that of all which he hath given me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should RAISE it up again the last day. — John 6:37, 39
. . . I will NEVER leave thee nor forsake thee . . . –Hebrew 13:5
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you UNTO MYSELF; that where I am, THERE [with Christ] ye may be also. — John 14:2, 3
“To whom does the Lord grant mercy at the judgment seat of Christ? Surely it is not to Christians that deny that they have any real need for future mercy.” — Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? – p. 51 (Also p. 60 pre-published book)
Born-again believers are to be counted already dead, and their lives are HID with Christ, having certain unconditional promises of grace and mercy. Yet, it is clear that Joey Faust insists that the Lord’s promises of mercy and grace to believers do NOT EXTEND to the JSOC. Yet Christ PROMISES NEVER to leave any born-again believer nor to forsake any born-again believer nor to cast any believer out or into hell or into the lake of fire. God promises that those for whom Christ died are NOT appointed to WRATH. These are COMFORT PROMISES for Christians and their dead loved ones. It is not a message of Faust gloom, doom, and uncertainty. We are told to SORROW NOT. As for living believers and their loved ones (who have passed on) being cast into the lake of fire or hell, NO believers are going to be CAST anywhere. Christ, who is with us alway, PROMISES that He will lose NOTHING to HELL nor to the LAKE OF FIRE. He PROMISES us NEVER to leave nor forsake us, and we shall NEVER PERISH (John 10:28), so that saved believers can appear with Him and live TOGETHER with him in GLORY.
THE UNCONDITIONAL STATUS OF ALL JSOC BELIEVERS
And WHOSOEVER liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE . . . — John 11:26
For ye are DEAD, and your life HID with Christ in God . . . — Col. 3:3
. . . our OLD MAN is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed . . . For he that is DEAD is FREED FROM SIN . . . Now if we be DEAD with Christ, we believe that we shall LIVE with him . . . — Rom. 6:6-8
. . . Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having SPOT, or WRINKLE, or any such thing; but that it should be HOLY and without BLEMISH. — Eph. 5:25-27
Now unto him that is able to keep you FROM FALLING, and to PRESENT you FAULTLESS before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy . . . — Jude 1:24
. . . He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE, and SHALL NOT come into CONDEMNATION; but is passed from death UNTO LIFE. — John 5:24
To the end he may stablish your hearts UNBLAMEABLE in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. — 1 Thess. 3:13
Whosoever is born of God doth NOT commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him; and he CANNOT sin, because he is born of God. — 1 John 3:9
Beloved, NOW we are the sons of God . . . when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM . . . and in him is NO SIN. — 1 John 3:2-5
Follow HOLINESS . . . without which NO MAN shall SEE THE LORD. (Both BLESSED and HOLY, Rev. 20:6) — Heb. 12:14
“Modern Christians too often use the unconditional promises of grace to neutralize the many warnings against walking in sin.” — Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? p. 48 (Also p. 56 – pre-published book)
The Believer’s UNCONDITIONAL STATUS not only NEUTRALIZES Joey Faust and his warnings but makes him a liar in the name of Panton, Govett, and anyone else that he uses to spin his yarn. Born-again believers at the JSOC have everlasting life and are IN CHRIST. They will NEVER DIE again. They will be presented WITHOUT SPOT and WITHOUT WRINKLE and WITHOUT BLEMISH and FAULTLESS, for GOD IS ABLE to PRESENT them as such. They will be uncondemned believers, if they are IN CHRIST Jesus. They shall NEVER PERISH (John 10:28), and they shall NEVER DIE (John 11:26). God is again found to be true and Faust a liar, for Faust teaches that carnal Christians will be slain and burned at the JSOC in heaven. Still there are no carnal Christians at the JSOC, only blood bought, blood washed, pure, faultless, uncondemned, spotless, blameless, blessed, holy, NON-dying believers. Believers’ souls will be without sin at the judgment seat of Christ. Their sins —past, present, and future—are forgiven and are paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ.
We shall be like HIM! Sinless! As far as God is concerned, the believer’s new nature does not sin and CANNOT sin (1 John 3:9). Believers are counted DEAD, and their lives HID with Christ in God (Col. 3:3). They have unconditional ETERNAL LIFE STATUS!
WHAT KIND OF ETERNAL LIFE?
And I GIVE unto them ETERNAL life; and they shall NEVER perish . . . — John 10:28
. . . the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord. — Rom. 6:23
And this is the PROMISE that he hath promised us, even ETERNAL LIFE. — 1 John 2:25
. . . God hath GIVEN to us ETERNAL LIFE, and this life is in his Son. — 1 John 5:11
Being CONFIDENT of this very thing, that he which hath BEGUN a good work in you WILL PERFORM it UNTIL the day of Jesus Christ [JSOC] . . . — Phil 1:6
Wherefore he is able to SAVE them to the UTTERMOST that come unto God by him, seeing he EVER liveth to make INTERCESSION for them. — Heb. 7:25
“By the above heading [The Reward of Eternal Life] I mean to convey the thought, the truth, that the phrase ‘eternal life’ is used in a dual, or twofold sense, in the Scriptures. In the former it designates the free gift of God to the soul that believes on Jesus Christ as the only Saviour from sin. In the second sense it means, no longer the free gift, but the prize of which Paul speaks in Phil. 3:7-14.” — Joey Faust, Quoting S.S. Craig, – The Rod: Will God Spare It? p. 225
[NOTE: Faust quotes S.S. Craig after dumping John Bunyan’s quote from the pre-pub book. Faust uses the same chapter heading in both editions, The Reward of Eternal Life, endorsing Craig’s position and explanation.]
“In conditional passages addressed to Christians, ‘eternal life’ would simply refer to ‘age-lasting life’ in the future millennium”: – Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? – p. 225
[NOTE:] “If the word ‘eternal’ were defined as enduring without end, then ‘eternal life’ would mean living, never to die again. Based on this definition, only those Christians that are accounted worthy of Millennial reign will experience ‘eternal life’ when Jesus returns.” – Joey Faust, Will God Spare the Rod? – The reward of Eternal Life, p. 287 – pre-published book)
Joey, like a Jehovah’s Witness, messes with “eternal life,” using the above circular argument in order to make his false doctrine work. Although he claims to be a King James Bible Believer, he likes to mess with the Greek to gainsay the plain English concerning “eternal,” “everlasting,“ “never,” and “ever.” Joey is like some Calvinists, who search for any place in which “all” does not mean “all” and “every” does not mean “every.” Faust likewise searches for places in which “eternal” does not mean “eternal,” “never” does not mean “never,” and so forth, so that his NON continuous eternal life can cease at the JSOC, where Faust has God killing and burning the carnal Christian after He “raises” him to heaven.
Joey, after being scolded for messing around with the word of God, changed his pre-pub wording to the above double-talk in his final published book, where Faust now puts such eternal life indiscretions in the appendix. The eternal life, which truly saved Christians have, is NOT a REWARD (presented neither to them at the JSOC nor after the millennium) as Joey teaches. It is a GIFT that God gives them here on earth—NOW! They shall NEVER PERISH! They will be SAVED to the UTTERMOST, for Christ EVER liveth to make INTERCESSION for them. God, who began our salvation, WILL PERFORM it UNTIL the day of Jesus Christ (all while Joey is trying to keep himself out of the lake of fire and hell). Eternal life is CONDITIONAL only upon faith.
WHO ARE PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION?
BLESSED and HOLY is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall REIGN with him a thousand years. — Rev. 20:6
. . . shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of LIFE; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of DAMNATION. — John 5:29
. . . thou shalt be RECOMPENSED at the resurrection of the JUST . . . — Luke 14:14
. . . the dead IN CHRIST shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up TOGETHER with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so SHALL we EVER be with the Lord. –1Thess. 4:16
Knowing that he which RAISED up the Lord Jesus shall RAISE up us also by Jesus, and SHALL PRESENT US WITH YOU. — 2 Cor. 4:14
“Everyone that has ‘part’ in the First Resurrection will reign. This at once refutes the common idea that the only thing Christians can forfeit is a reign in the kingdom. Christians can lose the millennial kingdom itself.” — Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? – p. 185 (Also p. 148 – pre-published book)
“Having part in the First Resurrection is linked with kingdom entrance and reign. Both are conditional blessings for Christians based upon conduct.” — Ibid., p. 188 (Also p. 152 – pre-published book)
“It is important to realize that ‘having part’ in the First Resurrection does not just consist of being raised momentarily from the dead or judgment. It consists of being raised from the dead never to die again.” — Ibid., p. 190 (Also p. 153 – pre-published book)
“Nevertheless, all Christians will not stay alive. All Christians will not be found worthy to obtain ‘that world’ and the ‘resurrection from the dead.’ Since they will die again, they do not ‘have part’ in that Resurrection.” –Ibid., p. 191 (Also p. 154 – pre-published book)
Joey Faust anticipates the problem that he faces with the First Resurrection, for all who are in that resurrection REIGN with Christ for a thousand years (something Joey does not want to happen). So, as usual, making things up as he goes (in circular argument), Faust just denies that carnal believers are in the First Resurrection, relegating them to the second. Faust contends that God only momentarily raises believers, when they are “raised” and go to heaven to be judged at the JSOC at the resurrection of the JUST, namely, the RESURRECTION of LIFE.
Joey winds up with three resurrections (and an EXTRA, newly invented, believer’s DEATH), while the Bible teaches only two —the just resurrection unto life and the evil resurrection unto damnation. Joey SPINS some believers as only being “raised” but NOT really being “resurrected.” That is how Joey excludes raptured carnal believers from the FIRST resurrection. Was Jesus only raised or also resurrected (2 Cor. 4:14)? Joey, a split rapturist (careful not to use the words “raised” and “translated,” instead of “raptured” or “resurrected”) believes the carnal will eventually be raptured AFTER the thousand year kingdom.
by Joey’s theory, carnal believers are railroaded before they are judged.
The real implication here is that the carnal believers, by Joey’s theory, are railroaded before they are judged. They are denied a mortal body, when they are raptured before the JSOC (without an official determination). Supposedly, they are raised with their old mortal body and then die again by being slain by the Lord according to Joey Faust. Some carefully fabricated Fairy Tale, huh? And all this in the name of a “BETTER” resurrection, which Joey compares to his contradictory NON-resurrection.
WHAT ABOUT THE REWARDS AT THE JSOC?
And, behold, I come quickly; and my REWARD is with me, to give EVERY MAN according as his WORK shall be. — Rev. 22:12
Holding forth the word of life; that I may REJOICE in the day of Christ (JSOC), that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain. — Phil. 2:16
If by any means I might ATTAIN unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect . . . I press towards the MARK for the PRIZE of the HIGH CALLING of God in Christ Jesus. — Phil 3:14
Know ye not that they which run in a RACE run all, but one receiveth the PRIZE? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the MASTERY is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible CROWN; but we an incorruptible. I therefore RUN, not as uncertainty; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: but I keep my body in subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY. — 1 Cor. 9:24
“Paul was striving for the First Resurrection. He shows the First Resurrection is conditioned upon suffering with Christ. It is called a ‘prize.’ A prize is something one is to win”; [Phil. 3:11-14; 1 Cor. 9:24-27] – Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It – p. 189 (Also p. 153 – pre published book)
“Only a select number of Christians (not all) will be raised to reign in the millennial kingdom. The remainder will fail to receive this great prize.” — Joey Faust, Ibid., p. 197 (Also p. 161 – pre publication book)
- 1 Cor. 9:24; Phil. 3:14 (Mastery/high calling incorruptible crown of victory)
- 1 Thess. 2:19-20 (Soul winner’s crown of rejoicing, see also Phil. 2:16; 4:1)
- Rev. 2:10 (Martyr’s crown of life)
- 1 Pet. 5:4 (Preacher’s crown of glory)
- 2 Tim. 4:8 (Lovers of His appearing crown of righteousness)
- James 1:12 (Trial Endurer’s crown of life)
There are MANY CROWNS GIVEN not merely ONE crown. The crowns that are outlined above have nothing to do with obtaining a resurrection nor any entrance into the Millennial kingdom nor escaping punishment from a Baptist purgatory, hell, or lake of fire. There are all different kinds of crown rewards that will be cast before the Lord’s throne before the millennial kingdom (Rev. 4:10).
Joey’s first mistake is to think that the PRIZE is the resurrection and/or the millennial kingdom in his proof texts. Paul was running in a RACE and pressing toward the MARK of the high calling of God, i.e., the MASTERY PRIZE. He was not in a race for the resurrection nor the kingdom nor was Paul concerned about losing the resurrection nor the kingdom.
He was concerned about losing the prize of the MASTERY and being rejected from the contenders for that mastery and high calling. There is no kingdom in Faust’s proof texts—only the allegory of a race and a prize—and the prize is identified by the Bible as something else than what Faust would like us to believe.
The kings and priests, which were made by God in Rev. 5:10, were made so by the blood by which Christ redeemed them in Rev. 5:9, long before the JSOC. Believers are made kings and priests by his blood BEFORE he comes (Rev. 1:6) and are NOW a HOLY and ROYAL PRIESTHOOD (1 Peter 2:5, 9)—NOT BY RUNNING ANY RACE NOR some CROWNING EVENT. Faust’s proof texts say nothing about anything excluding any blood-bought believer from being resurrected or from entering the kingdom. The proof texts include believers, who will reign and who belong to that first resurrection, rather than exclude them.
Joey’s second mistake is to think that to ATTAIN UNTO the resurrection means the same thing as to ATTAIN the resurrection. Joey interprets “ATTAIN” in the sense of Paul must “ACQUIRE” his special non carnal resurrection by some human effort such as some kind of the ascetic suffering, rather than to ARRIVE or REACH that resurrection (the correct meaning). Again, Paul is looking forward to the end of his RACE as he pressed toward the finish line or MARK (Phil. 3:14) in which the PRIZES, in these verses, are the MASTERY and the HIGH calling of God in Christ Jesus but which are not the resurrection nor the kingdom.
KINGDOM INHERITANCE AND ENTRANCE
Wherefore we RECEIVING A KINGDOM which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. — Heb. 12:28
And the Lord shall DELIVER ME from EVERY EVIL work, and will PRESERVE ME unto his HEAVENLY KINGDOM . . . — 2 Tim. 4:18
And IF YE BE CHRIST’S, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and HEIRS according to the promise . . . thou art no more a servant, BUT A SON; and if a son, then an HEIR of God through Christ. — Gal. 3:29, 4:17
And such WERE some of you: BUT YE ARE WASHED, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. –1 Cor. 6:11
Flesh and blood CANNOT INHERIT the kingdom of God . . . –1 Cor. 15:50
“The danger for unfaithful believers is seen to be only a loss of crowns. However, the Scripture teaches that all Christians who enter the kingdom from this dispensation are glorified kings. To lose the crown is to lose kingdom entrance (Revelation 5:10, 20:4-6, 1 Corinthians 9:24-27). All Christians, which enter the kingdom, enter crowned. Faithful Christians will primarily reign over nations who will then populate the earth.” — Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? – p. 82, 83 (Also p. 144 – pre-publication book)
Joey makes the mistake of thinking that the CROWN rewards are some means of resurrection and/or kingdom entrance to those who are already resurrected (except in Joey’s eyes, some are merely raised from the dead but are not really resurrected). Crowns are rewards and not conditions for eternal life nor inclusion into the millennial kingdom. For Faust’s information, believers have been translated into the kingdom of His dear Son (Col. 1:13) for over nineteen centuries. There are no plans to get them untranslated, when that kingdom physically appears.
The only requirements for seeing and entering this kingdom is being born-again (John 3:3-5) and being WASHED righteous (1 Cor. 6:9-11) from the sins that Joey continually uses to exclude believers. Of course, our FLESH and BLOOD and body of sins can never INHERIT the kingdom of God. Still, the believer’s life has been HID IN Christ, since he has ceased to be a child of disobedience and has become a child of light (Eph. 5:1-8). The believer is promised the millennial kingdom and has been SEALED (a finished transaction) and has been given a pledge, the EARNEST of the Spirit (Eph. 1:13,14; 2 Cor. 5:8).
The Lord will PRESERVE the believer unto his heavenly kingdom (2 Tim 4:18), whose election and calling is SURE, guaranteeing an abundant ENTRANCE into His everlasting kingdom. Paul fully believes that he has RECEIVED (for all practical purposes) the future kingdom and fully believes that God will PRESERVE him UNTO that kingdom. Believers are automatically HEIRS according to PROMISE and INHERIT the millennial kingdom by being Christ’s and by being God’s SON. So, whether you are talking about the present spiritual kingdom, the millennial kingdom, or the everlasting kingdom—count me in on it! Thank you Jesus! Amen! Praise de Lawd!
WILL THERE BE CORRUPTIBLE, MORTAL BODIES AT THE JSOC?
We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL BE CHANGED . . . the dead shall be raised INCORRUPTIBLE, and we shall be CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on IMMORTALITY. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in VICTORY. — 1 Cor. 15:51
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, ETERNAL IN THE HEAVENS . . . For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that MORTALITY MIGHT BE SWALLOWED UP of life Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the EARNEST of the Spirit. — 2 Cor. 5:1-8
But if the Spirit of him that RAISED up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, HE THAT RAISED up Christ from the dead SHALL ALSO QUICKEN your MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT that dwelleth in you. — Rom. 8:11
“Every Christian that has walked a life filled with the Spirit will be glorified at the Judgment Seat (Rom. 8:17). The flames of the ‘second death’ will not hurt the glorified body quickened by the Spirit. However, every Christian that has not allowed the indwelling Spirit to dwell in his actions and deeds (but has grieved Him) will die in the flames at the judgment seat. His carnal deeds will be manifested in his mortal body.” [unglorified] – Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? – p. 179 (Also p. 217 – pre-published book)
“Many Christians will be raised only to die again. They will be hurt of the ‘second death’ and will miss the kingdom for 1000 years. These Christians will be raised to immortality at the Great White Throne [second resurrection] after the millennium . . . These Christians missed the First Resurrection and the kingdom reign. They were hurt of the second death [lake of fire] and had to die again at the judgment seat of Christ. They receive the resurrection of life (to immortality) on the Last Day, which occurs after the millennium.” — Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It – p. 195, 196 (Also p. 159, 160 – pre published book)
Joey Faust thinks that all of the saved N.T. saints will be “RAISED” (split rapturist language for the carnal raptured) but that the carnal ones will not be glorified nor have immortal, incorruptible, NEW bodies, for the Lord’s FIERY breath must kill and burn them at the JSOC and put them in the lake of fire (to satisfy Faust’s insatiable, sadistic desire for believers to suffer, die, and burn). Again, let God be true and Joey Faust a liar, for ALL believers will have IMMORTAL bodies and souls; all will have incorruptible bodies and souls. They will not die; they cannot die. All believers will have NEW glorified bodies. There are NO mortal bodies at the JSOC. All believers are HOLY SPIRIT RAISED from the dead and are promised that their MORTAL bodies will be HOLY SPIRIT QUICKENED (Rom. 8:11). The Holy Spirit dwells in them and gives all of them immortal bodies. Joey, the apostle of uncertainty, does not nor cannot have that confidence, believing this false doctrine (as he does). Faust cannot even be sure that he will not burn in his Baptist Purgatory nor be shut out of the millennial kingdom. Let God be true and Faust a LIAR in his doctrine by interpolation, innuendo, and inference!
WHO WIELDS JOEY’S ROD OF CHASTISEMENT (THE JUDGE)?
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed ALL judgment [NOT punishment and NOT chastisement at the JSOC] unto the Son: — John 5:22
For whom the Lord loveth he CHASTENETH, and SCOURGETH EVERY SON [on earth not in heaven]whom he receiveth. — Heb. 12:6
“Many believers (especially in this age) do not realize that the future judgment seat of Christ will administer severe chastisement for unholy conduct.” –Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? – p. 45 (Also p. 54, 55 – pre published book)
The Bible teaches that ALL Christians are SCOURGED—not just the carnal. If we do not receive chastisement, we are bastards and not sons (Heb. 12:8). Where does that leave Faust, who thinks that only certain ones get the STRIPES (chastisement being the premise of Faust’s book)?
In the first place, chastisement and punishment are two different things. Chastisement is corrective and punishment is punitive. What kind of correction is needed after one’s life is over? Fathers are supposed to chastise their children unto correction but NOT to punish them (Pro. 3:11,12). Our heavenly Father chastises His adopted, saved children on this earth, but He does not punish them. Yet, He has indeed punished the UNSAVED and His enemies. More important is the one, who wields the Rod of Chastisement—always the Father. Yet it is our elder brother, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge Christians at the judgment seat of Christ, and that judgment is going to be to reward his brothers not to punish them nor even to chastise them. It will be to destroy their works that were NOT done for HIM by burning these bad or worthless or wrong works, causing the believer to suffer loss.
THE GOOD AND BAD WORKS AT THE JSOC?
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. — 2 Cor. 5:10
“Reward can be either positive or NEGATIVE” – Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? – p. 49
(NOTE: “The Lord will ‘reward’ both good and bad conduct in His people . . .” — Joey Faust, (p. 58 – pre published book but changed to the above)
“Some Christians will meet the Lord at the Judgment Seat as an avenger of evil: [1 Thess. 4:6]” — Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? p. 51 (Also p. 59 – pre published book)
This is one of Joey’s key passages for proving that a Christian gets bad or negative rewards or punishment at the JSOC. Unfortunately for Joey, EVERYONE at the JSOC receives for the good and bad done in his old body—not just a certain group. Note that the good and bad relate to the OLD imperfect body and not to the soul nor to the NEW body. The believer’s soul and spirit are taken care of by the blood of Christ and cannot be punished. The old body of sins is destroyed and changed into a glorified, new body (despite Joey’s denial), so that it cannot be punished. (Note that nothing is said about the JSOC in (1 Thess. 4:6). It is just inferred like so many of his other proof texts.)
The worst thing that can happen at the JSOC is for the believer to receive worthless rewards and then have them burned up, after he is allowed to present his case by giving a truthful stewardship account of his works. Still, one may say that he must receive something for the bad. What does that mean? The lake of fire? Death? Who says so? Joey Faust? The word “bad” has a number of different connotations (“Failing to meet an acceptable standard”—Webster New Collegiate), including “worthless” in both English and the Greek (see Strong’s here). So what bad things does a Christian receive at the JSOC? What Mr. Faust implies or suggests or pontificates? Or is the explanation within the JSOC passages themselves? Of course, it is in the latter. What is received for the Faust over-emphasized “BAD” things done in the body? Wood, hay, and stubble are received and subsequently burned up! Now, that was not hard . . . , was it? No Greek is even needed. Gold, silver, and precious stones withstand the fire and ABIDE (as do the believers).
SO AS BY FIRE VERSUS BY FIRE
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if ANY man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; EVERY man’s WORK shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is. If ANY man’s WORK abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If ANY man’s WORK shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet SO AS BY FIRE. — 1 Cor. 3:10-15
“In 1 Corinthians 3:15, the ‘fire’ speaks of literal fire. Paul concludes his warning by revealing that it is the unfaithful Christian man himself that shall be literally burned.” – Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? p. 161 (Also p. 101 – pre-published book)
We have heard a doleful sound, FIRE saves, FIRE saves! A similar song is such that WATER SAVES. The first song is Catholic, and the second is Campbellite. WORKS are tried BY FIRE—not Christians. The foundation is Christ by virtue of what He did for us. JESUS SAVES! Subsequent believers’ works are built on the Christ foundation for rewards. The passage declares that no man can lay that foundation, NOT EVEN Joey Faust, although that is what he is trying to do. What we build on CHRIST are reward works. Cannot Joey see that “WORK” is mentioned FOUR TIMES in that verse? What is it that Joey does not understand about our works being tried and about what was taken care of at the foundation—Christ? What is it that Joey does not understand about our works being burned and not our bodies nor us? What is it that Joey does not understand about us suffering LOSS and NOT punishment? What does Joey not understand about those judged at the JSOC being SAVED, even as the fornicating Corinthian, whose SPIRIT would have been SAVED at the JSOC or day of the Lord Jesus (or day of Christ as it is also called), while his flesh would have had to be chastised and destroyed ON EARTH (if he would not have repented)? Still, it is the utmost arrogance to suggest that some folks will not have ANY gold, silver, nor precious stones, while others have ALL wood, hay, and stubble, since Faust’s formula allows no mixture.
The worthless wood, hay, and stubble must need be for the WORTHLESS works not done for Christ. Works, apart from the Spirit, are works that are still covered by the blood, regarding punishment, but these same worthless works are recompensed with wood, hay, and stubble and are ultimately burned up, causing the believer loss. Still, the gold, silver, and precious stones are indeed that which is done in and through the Spirit for Christ and abide through the fire, summed up in the poem: “Only one life will soon be past; Only what is done for Christ will last.”
“Oh, but Evans, what about the being saved BY FIRE.” Nice try, Faust! Everywhere that fire is mentioned—it is the lake of fire—right? Everywhere judgment is mentioned—it is the judgment seat of Christ—right? Just like a Campbellite sees baptism everywhere he sees water—wrong! And I suppose that everywhere that the word “BY” is used it means that the agent associated with it is what is doing the saving—right? Wrong! This is merely a sophist’s attempt to take advantage of a nuance of English, which can easily be disproved. Faust is trying to make “saved SO AS BY fire” mean “saved BY fire.”
Noah and his family were saved by water—right? Oh? No? It says eight souls were saved “BY WATER” (1 Pet. 3:20); that is what it says. Campbellites also try to build a doctrine on this preposition, just like Faust does. NEITHER passage teaches that the fire nor the water saves the participants. Contrarily, they teach that these participants are saved apart from and in spite of the fire and the water. Neither FIRE nor WATER SAVES. JESUS SAVES! In the case of the JSOC, the fire only burns the wood, hay, and stubble works, for they were the only things said to burn after the light of the fire revealed them as such. The gold, silver and precious stones and believers ABIDE through the fire. Neither the carnal believer nor the spiritual believer is even SINGED! Hallelujah! Do I have a witness?
Some Negative Aspects to Avoid at the JSOC
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall EVERY MAN have praise of God. — 1 Cor. 4:5
So then EVERY ONE of us shall give ACCOUNT of himself to God. — Rom. 14:12
. . . children, abide in him; that when he shall appear, we may have confidence and NOT BE ASHAMED before him at his coming. — 1 John 2:28
“The Bible places the timing of the judgment seat in the future when Jesus returns and the bodies of Christians are resurrected or translated to meet Him in the air. Indeed both positive and negative rewards will then be administered”: – Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? p. 46 (Also p. 55, 56 – pre-published book)
Joey Faust talks down to his opposition as if they were unaware of the carnal, disobedient, sinning, unrepentant, unconfessed, born-again Christians. Yet, some of us have been dealing with them longer than he has been on this earth. He also thinks we are unaware of our Heavenly Father’s chastisement of such Christians (on this earth). Joey also need not remind us of the gain or loss of rewards at the JSOC nor that Christians should repent and confess their sins. Many of us have been teaching these things before Joey was born. The sorry state of apostate Christianity is also no surprise to us, especially when some will buy into such nonsensical heresy and false teaching.
The other things that will happen at the JSOC beside the LOSS of rewards and folks not getting a FULL reward is the shame, embarrassment, self-deprecation, and steward’s account, which will then take place. Still, these are things that do not come from God but come from within the man at the judgment. Yet exposure of the hidden things of darkness is by God’s illuminating fire at the JSOC and is initiated by God. Nevertheless, EVERY MAN at the JSOC will have PRAISE of God for something—some gold, silver, or precious stone rewards. It will not be as Joey Faust teaches, namely, one totally bad group of wood, hay, stubble versus another totally good group of gold, silver, and precious stones. Joey’s account of the lake of fire and hell being THE negative reward is contrary to the direct biblical passages pertaining to the JSOC. The negative wood, hay, and stubble are burned up and disappear, being much more consistent with a believer’s “LOSS” than Joey’s SPIN on believers being punished in hell.
It is noteworthy that Faust spends little time, comparatively, on the direct JSOC passages. He would rather allegorize and use many irrelevant cross references, parables, and figures, and obscure O.T. Texts. Some of Faust’s Gospel and transitional exchanges (whose recipients are not always clear and are often quoted in a wrong time frame) occur in an entirely different context other than the JSOC. Why not give us all plain, clear, easy to understand promises from God as well as “pertinent” scripture, instead of dead writers’ quotes (which in his book are numbered two to one to his scripture quotes). Hardly any rationale’ accompanies his proof texts, only a “this means this and that means that” proposition in contradiction to the Bible.
THE OVERCOMERS’ CULT
He that OVERCOMETH shall not be hurt of the second death. — Rev. 2:11
“The Lord’s breath lights a fire before His throne. This fire from the Lord’s mouth is a rod. It will try believers and it will slay all that have lived in disobedience and sloth without repentance. The Lake of Fire is where this soul death will begin to occur; therefore the Lake of fire is called the ‘second death’ . . . Christians are warned about the danger of being temporarily ‘hurt’ by this Lake of Fire . . . After being slain by the Lord’s fiery breath at the judgment seat, unfaithful Christians will be banished to the underworld [HELL] for 1000 years.” The Rod: Will God Spare It? p. 143, 144 (p. 83, 84 – pre published book)
“ It is now time to examine more closely the death that many Christians will experience at the judgment seat. It includes not only the death of the body, but also the death of the soul”: –Joey Faust, The Rod: Will God Spare It? – p. 135 (Also p.75 pre published book)
Joey Faust weaves an intricate scheme of allegorical and suggestive interpretation, which would attempt to bind his readers to the caprice of his interpolations, inferences, innuendo, and suggestive pontification, typical of this “OVERCOMERS’ CULT” and of a false teacher, guilty of hard core heresy, who challenges the very core of Independent, Fundamental Baptist, salvation teaching. Faust totally contradicts the “promises” of God, which he ignores, avoids, obviates, and tries to steal from the believer.
We are not going to try to disprove the hundreds of non related proof text spins that Faust tries to apply to proving the lake of fire for Christians (using up his entire concordance). We will deal with the one Faust text (Rev. 2:11) that he considers to be the strongest proof text to support his view of God killing believers at the JSOC and then sending them to the lake of fire.
Faust’s take on Revelation 2:11 is that the lake of fire commences for the carnal Christian following the JSOC, and the non overcomer or carnal Christian, who has not repented nor confessed their carnality, unfaithfulness, nor sins before death, will be hurt of the second death or lake of fire. Since to know to do good and doing it not is sin, every Christian must go there BY IMPLICATION. Unless, of course, Joey stops mimicking Roman Catholics and Arminians and begins to tell us, “How much unconfessed sin will get us thrown into the lake of fire?” and “How much faithfulness and suffering will keep us out of his Baptist Purgatory? (Not typical of such apostles of uncertainty, who do not even know if they are going to be in hell or not.)
He that OVERCOMETH shall not be hurt of the second death. — Rev. 2:11
Faust has violated every rule of contextual interpretation regarding Revelation 2:11:
- It does not say here that anyone WILL be hurt of the second death; it only says that overcomers WON’T be hurt, a promise to ALL believers like other promises in Rev. 2 and 3.
- Faust’s condemnation that “overcoming” means “not to be carnal, unrepentant, or unconfessed,” which does not even hint at the Bible’s definition of overcoming. He just makes it up.
- We do not overcome by our works, we overcome the wicked one and the world by the blood of the Lamb (1 John 2:13,14; Rev. 12:11) and by the word of our testimony and by the Holy Spirit (1 John 4:4). Anyone that is born-again overcometh the world (1 John 5:5) by his faith (1 John 5:4). That is called VICTORY IN JESUS, MY SAVIOUR FOREVER (1 John 5:4). There, now Faust may have a scriptural “overcomer” definition!
- Faust, by his interpretation, is saying by implication that carnal Christians, who do not confess nor repent before death, also:
- will not eat of the hidden manna (Rev. 2:17)
- will not be given a white stone (2:17)
- will not have a new name written therein (2:17)
- will not be given power over the nations (2:26)
- will not rule with Christ with a rod of iron (2:27)
- will not receive the MORNING STAR (Rev 2:28)
- will not be dressed in white raiment. (3:5)
- WILL BE blotted out of the Book of life. (3:5)
- will not be confessed before Christ’s Father (3:5)
- will not be confessed before the angels (Rev. 3:5)
- will not be a pillar in God’s temple (3:12)
- will not go no more in or out (3:12)
- will not have the name of God’s city written on him (3:12)
- will not have God’s new name written on him (3:12)
- will not sit on Jesus’ throne (3:21)
- will not inherit all things (Rev. 21:7)
- will not have the Lord to be his God (21:7)
- will not be God’s son (21:7)
If Faust believes all this by implication, he is everything that we have said and read about him (not surmising nor railing as Faust complains about us doing but a scriptural reproving and rejection of the unfruitful works of darkness). He is a heretic and a false teacher and a liar. One has to be taught Faust’s heresy as a system, for his main tenets do not readily appear from any plain reading of the scriptures unless forced.
A heretic should be reproved and rejected, according to the scriptures—not coddled, endorsed, entertained, nor given audiences. Whom is God going to judge (either here or in the air)? God will judge those preachers, who ignore the tearful warnings of the Apostle Paul in Acts 20, who allow wolves like Joey Faust to creep in and mess up God’s sheep. This religious huckster and politician also will be judged for infiltrating various Baptist circles (by flattery and embracing their causes) to promote FEAR, intimidation, and heresy.
— by Herb Evans
God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God IN HIM Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have BOLDNESS in the day of judgement: because AS HE IS, SO ARE WE in this world. There is NO FEAR in love; but perfect love CASTETH OUT FEAR: because fear hath torment. He that FEARETH is not made perfect in love. –1 John 4:16-18
Pastor Ken Blue was born in Boswell, Ark. In 1955 he accepted Christ as his Savior. He and his wife Joyce were married in 1955. They have 5 children. He graduated from Midwestern Baptist Bible College in 1969 and started the Open Door Baptist Church in Lynnwood, Wa. where he pastored for 39 years. Because of health issues (ALS) he was forced to resign as pastor. It is his desire to continue to be used of God to help pastors and believers through this ministry.