HE LOVED ME HE LOVES ME NOT
“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26.
A Pastor asked, “if God so loved the world…” does it mean He no longer loves it? The word that troubled him was “loved.” “Since it is in the past tense, has God stopped loving the lost and does He now hate them.” I said, “If God hates sinners, must we also hate them to be Godlike? Also, should we be sending money to missionaries so they can preach the gospel to those they and God hate?” This striving about words is just one tacit of Satan to confuse and divide the brethren.
Now if past tense means it’s over, and no longer active, shall we apply it to the following? Does “loved” mean God no longer loves us and the lost of this world? Perhaps that explains the arrogant, condescending attitude of some preachers and evangelist. If God hates the lost and wants them to go to hell, what’s wrong if I have the same attitude?
“Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.” Romans 8:37.
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Galatians 2:20
“But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,” Ephesians 2:4
“And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.” Ephesians 5:2
“Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;” Ephesians 5:25. Since he loved the church, does He love it now?
“Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,” 2 Thessalonians 2:16
“For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.” 2 Timothy 4:10. Since Demas left because he “loved” this world, did he cease to love it after he forsook Paul?
“Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” Hebrews 1:9. God “loved” righteousness. Does He love it now?
“Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” 1 John 4:10. This verse suggests that God loved the sinner before He died for him, and that love was the reason He sent Jesus to die.
“Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.” Mark 10:21. Here is a self-righteous lost young man, yet Jesus loved him.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 1 John 4:11. If past tense means God stopped loving, at what point shall we stop loving one another”
“We love him, because he first loved us.” 1 John 4:19
“The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.” Jeremiah 31:3. Does God love Israel today?
You may argue that the above is a reference to believers, and God loves them now. Then we ask, if God hates sinner, shouldn’t we also hate them in order to be like God? Does past tense mean it’s over?
Do you hate all sinners, or just the ones who don’t sin like you. God hates divorce. Does he hate the divorced? Why not? “For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.” Malachi 2:16. Should we have fellowship with divorces, if God hates them? Now, I don’t hate anyone. I’m simply putting out the test to prove that the brethren don’t hate all sinners;they are selective. Shame, Shame on you!
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Pastor Ken Blue was born in Boswell, Ark. In 1955 he accepted Christ as his Savior. He and his wife Joyce were married in 1955. They have 5 children. He graduated from Midwestern Baptist Bible College in 1969 and started the Open Door Baptist Church in Lynnwood, Wa. where he pastored for 39 years. Because of health issues (ALS) he was forced to resign as pastor. It is his desire to continue to be used of God to help pastors and believers through this ministry.
SO WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON GOD LOVING A SINNER BUT HATING THEIR SIN. THESE SINNERS, ARE THEY LOST SINNERS OR SAVED SINNERS. OR ARE THEY BOTH. I COULD NEVER FIND IN THE BIBLE WHERE GOD LOVES EVERYBODY IN THE PRESENT TENSE. SO ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES THAT WOULD NOT EVEN BE BIBLE BECAUSE I TIS NO WHERE IN THERE. IN THE BIBLE , IST THE LOVE OF GOD MANIFESTED TO UNSAVED WORLD AT CALVARY AND ONLY THERE(ROM. 5:6-10; 2 COR. 5:19-21; COL. 2:12-15; 1 PET.1:19-21, 2:24 3:18; 1 JON. 3:5,16 4:9-11). IN JOHN 3:36 DOESNT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDE ON EVERY CHRIST REJECTING SINNER ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH WHO DON’T FALL UNDER THE CONDITIONS OF ROMANS 4:15, 5:13. I WOULDNT SAY I HATE (LOST)SINNERS BUT, I AM NOT GOD AND I BELIEVE I AM AT LIBERTY TO SAY THAT THE THINGS THAT GOD WOULD CERTAINLY LOVE ARE THINGS THAT ARE HOLY AND PURE BECAUSE HE IS HOLY. I HAVE COME TO LEARN THAT GOD IS NOT IN LOVE OR HEAD OVER HEALS FOR AN UNSAVED MAN. SO SAYING ALL THAT TO SAY THIS, WOULD YOU SAY THAT MANY MANY PREACHERS TODAY ACROSS THS GREAT NATION MISTAKE GOD’S MERCY FOR HIS LOVE?
Greg, perhaps the best place to start would be with the question, do you hate your father, mother, brothers, sisters and wife? ““If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26. To be honest and consistent, we must hate them. Do you?
Secondly, if one is going to use the “past tense” to establish this doctrine, shouldn’t he be consistent and follow that rule throughout Scripture? I gave several examples in the blog you were asking about. I suggest you read it again and answer the questions. Did Jacob stop loving Rachel? “And Jacob loved Rachel; (past tense) (and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.” Genesis 29:18. Notice also that Jacob hated Leah. “And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.” Genesis 29:31.
Also, If you think God loves only those who are holy and pure, you are mistaken. The Bible from Genesis to Revelation demonstrates that. I am aware that we are not God. But that excuse could be an alibi. If I am to be God like, shouldn’t I be praying that I will have more hatred for sinners?
To say that the only place God manifested His love for the world was at the cross is not consistent with Scripture. I don’t know about other preachers, but I am not confused on this subject. God’s compassion and grace are manifestations of His love. So, the answer to your question, “isn’t the love of god manifested to unsaved world at Calvary and only…?” Is, no.
God’s love is manifested when he covered Adam and Eve, walked with Enoch, saved Noah and his family, called Abraham, saved Lot out of Sodom, created the Jewish nation as a missionary nation, gave them the Scriptures, wept over Jerusalem, died on the cross, hears our prayers, allowed us to have His Word, and is coming again! Once again, grace and compassion are only extensions of God’s love.
I believe the following describe loud and clear what this novel issue is creating. “Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.”
God Bless
Now of corse I don’t hate my father, mother, brothers, sisters and wife but what that word being used as a comparative thing like in Judges 14:16 where in the sense a fella doesn’t follow someone’s desires. There are words that have multiple meanings right? Matt.10:37, Gen.29:31
Now of corse I don’t hate my father, mother, brothers, sisters and wife but what if that word is being used as a comparative thing like in Judges 14:16 where a fella doesn’t follow someone’s desires. ho about in that sense There are words that have multiple meanings right? Matt.10:37, Gen.29:31.
There is no establishing any doctrine here. Now to say that Jacob did love Rachel(past tense) would be true because he did but now they have been dead for many years so how can they still be loving each other?
Sorry I didn’t mean to say where did God manifest his love. I meant to ask where did God present;show his love to lost mankind? Does He have love for a world that is “evil”(Gal.1:4;Psa.7:11) Is God’s love for a sinner ever seperated from His Son’s Sacrifice? Yes Or No.
Didn’t David say in Ps.5:5 that God “hates” all workers of iniquity.
I thouhgt I said THE THINGS THAT GOD WOULD CERTAINLY LOVE: ARE THEY THINGS THAT ARE HOLY AND PURE? Just things not people. Now dealing with people, God does love the new man because you have his love according to 1 Jn. 1:7-21. How can God say to an unsaved man whom He supposadly loves , “depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:? Where is the love in that? For an eternity.
I do understand that we are to love because God first loved us.
Does God love Israel today? Not according to )Hosea 9:15,17) God said that he hated his own chosen people. Isn’t Jer.31:3 dealing with the restoration of Israel at the second advent?
Does God love his Enemies?(James 4:4) I am aware that King David hated his enmies with a perfect hatred(Psa. 138:22)
Now just because of God’s very nature is love; can’t he have compassion and mercy on a lost man or a sinner for that matter without loving him? Yes or No.
I don’t want to strive about word. The Bible ceartinly is right about that topic. No profit indeed!!
Well, I’de hate to fail your test, because I do love my Wife, of course not the same way I love President Obama, LOL.(2Tim.1:7)
P.S. This was fun, thanks
RIGHT!
I was sure you did not
This is a great website. The doctrine is very Biblically-sound.
The Bible shows that God loved the human race enough to send the Lord Jesus Christ to die for our sins and pay for us to be saved. But individuals, as you know, must trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and receive Him as one’s Savior in order to receive those eternal benefits.
The present issue is the issue of whether or not He, God, Jesus, presently loves lost humans. Well, the word says that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, and, God does not change. This leads me to believe He does love people, all people, including the lost who reject Him.
However, some things are in order.
1 God loves the born again/saved person in a family sort of way because we are His family through Jesus. He loves us more in that sense than He does the lost person who rejects Him.
2 I do not believe God loves Satan. We are commanded to love all humans, including the lost, and the best way to love them is to proclaim the Gospel to them. We are allowed to focus hatred on Satan but then again, why waste the personal resources, when instead we should focus that on witnessing.
3 Eternal security is wonderful and true. The Gospel cannot be seperated from the Biblical truth of eternal security.